LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL: FRIDAY, 19 DECEMBER 2003
Commentary by J. Brock (FINN)
A meeting of Legislative Council took place in the Court and Council Chamber of the Town Hall at 1030 hrs. on Friday, 19 December 2003. Due to the importance of what was said in the Motion for Adjournment speeches, especially by Cllr. the Hon. Mr. Mike Summers, they will be transcribed and distributed first. Cllr. Summers was the Last Councillor to speak to the Motion for Adjournment. The debate on the tax bill will come second.
Cllr. the Hon. Mr. John Birmingham (JB):
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, In speaking to the motion, may I welcome Commander British Forces, Air Commodore Lacey and his good lady. Believe it or not, the Falklands do get more sunshine than London, on average. But sometimes averages can be deceiving.
There are a few things flowing around the community at the moment. Over this last few weeks, there are a number of letters to in the newspaper, some of which are attacking individuals, others just generally attacking the Government. And, people are starting not to put their names to them. I have a lot of respect – even though I might disagree with the content of a letter – but I have a lot of respect for somebody who is having a bit of a go, certainly at Councillors – that’s one of the reasons we are there for. And, then that person puts their name to it. And I would ask the newspaper editor to consider whether she thinks it’s the right way to go. I did have a quick look this morning. There’s a letter there with “Name and Address Supplied” and it’s just replying to a lady who put her name to a letter last week. And, it’s to do with meat being served in one of the stores. If you go down the road of just no names on any letters – so I just wondered if the newspaper would actually want to have a think about their policy – or perhaps the Media Trust. The freedom of expression in the Falklands, as far as I am concerned, is probably as good as you are going to get anywhere. And, in nine years as a Councillor, I have no knowledge, I have no experience of anybody who has been writing letters, attacking Councillors or the Government – I have no experience of any individual having a hard time. I’ve never been around the table where – people might say that it was a letter and a half – but if that person has come to Councillors for anything – they have been treated in exactly the same way as anybody else. So, as far as I am concerned, and Cllr. Edwards here might find this hard to believe, that at one point I was known as a trouble maker.
NE: I’d never have believed it.
JB: It’s hard to believe. As far as I am concerned, we do have freedom of expression here and I hope that in the new year people will feel that they are able to put their name to letters in the press.
There’s been a possibility of BFBS, which is BFBS 2 TV, which is coming to the Islands to MPA, of that TV Station becoming available to civilians. Now, a couple of people have asked me why we can’t have it. And, the reason I don’t think we will be getting it is we just can’t afford it. But I put out the question to the public over the radio here and that is if there were a large number of people who wanted a second TV Station, the question would be, would people be willing to pay for it through a licence? I look forward to a few letters in the newspaper over that.
As I say, I had a quick breeze through the newspaper – it’s always handy to have it out on a Friday before we meet. And, in the Editorial, I clicked on the piece about Falkland Islanders being consulted over possible extension of flights to the Argentine Republic. And, that the British Government, the Minister has said in public on more than one occasion, the Falkland Islanders will be consulted and that nothing would happen without the consent of Falkland Islanders. I think there might be some confusion flowing around. My understanding is that the Council would make a decision. I don’t think there is any question of any kind of a referendum. In 1998, I asked that we should talk about relations with Argentina and possibly have a referendum and two people in the community, one being the Governor – two Governors ago – and the other person being the Rt. Hon. Norma Edwards – the following week in the newspaper were absolutely against any kind of referendum and I would suggest that the reasons why both Cllr. Edwards and the Governor at that time were against a referendum is that on one hand they were scared that the majority of people might say one thing and, on the other hand, that they were scared that they might say something else. And, the difficulty with referendums is that everybody has to understand everything that’s the situation is all about. And, so as far as I am aware, the Council will make the right decision as they see it for the benefit of the Falklands.
I think I have probably set the tone for the rest of the motions for adjournment and I would just like to wish everybody a happy Christmas and a very prosperous New Year.
I Support the motion.
Cllr. the Hon. Mrs. Norma Edwards (NE):
Yes Mr. Speaker, in rising to support the Motion for Adjournment, I will add my best wishes to Commodore Lacey and his wife and hope you enjoy your time in the Falklands. I am pleased to hear that we will have you longer than previous CBFFIs.
Cllr. Birmingham touched on Argentina and so on. I think we have had a lot of press from Argentina lately and a lot of rhetoric, which will go on no doubt. I think it’s very sad that Argentina, who wants to be seen as a responsible, sensible, nation now, and has had democracy for a number of years, constantly snipes at the Falkland Islands and looks for any chance of rotting us up where they possibly can. And, I would just like to publicly reassure the people of the Falkland Islands that we have had very good support from the British Government over the years and since the 1999 Agreement. And, they only lately have reiterated that our wishes have to be taken into account. And, they have been very strong on that front. I am very grateful to the British Government for that and I think Argentina should understand that if they wish to comment or to talk on any front, they have to recognise the fact that we actually live here and they have to accept us as the people who decide the future of the Falkland Islands. I wasn’t afraid of a referendum, Cllr. Birmingham, but I do think referendums at times can be engineered to say what the people that are proposing it want the public to say.
JB: I understand.
NE: And, that was the reason I was against a referendum at that time. I knew what your devious, little mind was like.
JB: O! Point of Order! Serious point of order!
NE: All right, I will withdraw the devious bit. And, the other thing, I would just like to say to the public is we have no intention at this point in time, and I can’t see any point in time, certainly from my point of view, of direct commercial flights from Argentina being allowed into the Falkland Islands.
BFBS 2, John mentioned BFBS 2, I think it would be difficult to charge a licence fee because I seem to remember when we first had the services of BFBS. It is a charity and licences are difficult. Now, I don’t know how we could get around that as a Government thing but we would have to consult with the Attorney General and the Financial Secretary and see if there is a possibility if people want it. It might mean that we could see something earlier in the Evening if we had BFBS 2 rather than wait until 1200 at night. But I think we are very lucky to be able to have BFBS 1. I am very grateful for it.
Sir, I support the motion for Adjournment and Merry Christmas to everybody..
Cllr. the Hon. Mr. Stephen Luxton (SL):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, I would also like to begin by welcoming the new Commander to this House. I hope he will enjoy his time here and I look forward to working with him for the next 18 months or so.
I think there is only one issue I want to talk about today and that’s the neighbours from Hell, as you would expect, the old ’82 expression, “Argie Bargie,” surfaced in my mind last night. I haven’t heard it for a while but that seems to fit what’s going on. There seem to be rather too many Argies throwing rather too much Bargie at the moment. Frankly, I was slightly amazed by the comment made recently by one miss-guided Official over there that he no more cared about what we thought than he cared about 3,000 people living in Eaton. A remarkable attitude in the modern age, even for a people as intransigent and remote from reality as the Argentines. As for the fuss they made about the complete non-story – the nuclear weapons that didn’t come into our territorial waters, weren’t used, didn’t leak, didn’t get lost, the less said about that, the better. It proves, however, that one aspect of the character remains consistent, that they haven’t lost their talent for entirely misrepresenting presently unambiguous press statements.
I am even more amazed at the comments published in recent newspapers – senior Argentine Officials brazenly stating that they will be along for a grand state opening of the Memorial, they won’t get their passports stamped, special arrangements will be made with the Foreign Office, etc., etc.. Really, I think we will decide that. It is perhaps a fitting testimony to the attitude of the Government over there that they are already scrambling to turn what should be a dignified remembrance ceremony for the families, into a political who-ha of epic proportions. And, the Memorial isn’t even out of Argentina yet.
Having read the editorial in the newspaper this morning, I would like to reassure people here that there won’t be any talks about sovereignty under any circumstances. That’s final. And, there is the full backing and commitment of the UK Government reiterated only the other week by Minister Bill Rammell on his visit here. Our aim in any discussions that may follow is to secure progress on communications links that are in the best long-term interest of the Falkland Islands. But as asked in that editorial, this morning, sovereignty does have the utmost priority. Without that, we have nothing. There is no progress on offer, so as far as I am concerned, we stay as we are now.
I would like to finish by wishing everybody in this House, throughout the Falklands, and indeed, our friends and supporters wherever they may be, a Merry Christmas and a very happy, prosperous and a bountiful, British and Free New Year.
Mr. Speaker, I support the motion.
Cllr. the Hon. Mrs. Jan Cheek (JC):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, I would like to join in the welcome of the new Commander British Forces, Air Commodore Lacey and his family.
Following from what my Colleague, the Hon. John Birmingham said about some of the anonymous letters – people hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. What I find most disturbing is when they are making attacks on Civil Servants, many of who aren't in a good position to defend themselves, making allegations that, in some cases are outrageous. Some would say, not to read the letters. But the fact is that some people do read those letters and would do anything rather than get fact in the way of a good story. People are too eager to believe the worst of Civil Servants. My experience is we may have the odd problem with them but most of them are decent, hard working people trying to do a job, trying to do it well, trying to balance people’s demands for services with the money and the resources they have available to provide those services. And, it’s unfair and, I think, unworthy of us that they should be attacked in that way without a proper right of reply.
I hope, like my colleague, that the Newspaper Editor would give serious thought to the value of allowing people to hide their identity when making these kinds of –sometimes- unjustified attacks.
At this time of year, I always like to thank those who will be working through the holidays, providing our essential services. And, I hope that the public will be reasonable in their demands on those essential services. And, not forgetting our volunteer forces, the volunteers of the FIDF and the fire Brigade.
Moving to a recent local difficulty we have been having with our neighbours, and their threatening behaviour, we are adamant that we should not be pushed or bullied into any kind of silly compromise. However, people across the Islands, must be prepared for some inconvenience that goes with taking that firm stand. I, too, welcome the very robust line taken by the Foreign Office in accordance with our wishes and reiterate that we have been fully consulted and informed throughout recent weeks here and in London and that firm line that they are taking on our behalf.
I support the motion.
Cllr. the Hon. Mr. Richard Cockwell (RC):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, as usual, by the time we get around here, most people have said things which I wish to talk about. However, there are one or two things that I would like to just add my pinch of salt to.
The first is the very difficult situation that we have in front of us regarding the charter flights into the Falkland Islands. And, we have, as other members have said, made a very firm stand on that. It is worded very strongly and in fact lead by the Foreign Office. And. I think, the sooner that Argentina realises that we will not be pushed or bullied into doing what they wish, the better. They must have realised that, over the years, we do not succumb to threats or deprivation of various things that they actually control. The sooner they drop that and come to know they are our next door neighbours and should be living together peacefully and quietly in our own countries as good next door neighbours, the better.
Members have mentioned the support of the Foreign Office here and the strong support that they have given us and the strong words they have used with Argentina. Can I also mention H. E. the Governor, who has been very strong and very supportive on our side and has been putting the Falkland Islands’ position very strongly not only to the Foreign Office but also to Buenos Aires. And, I think we should thank him for that.
Moving on, perhaps I could actually mention something new, which I am surprised nobody’s mentioned. I thought the Hon. John Birmingham might have brought it up. That is the one-way system and the clear-way.
JB: Laughs aloud
TB: brings the gavel down. I note we are approaching the festive season, Honourable Members, but a little decorum, if I may?
JB: Point of order Mr. Chairman (he means Mr. Speaker) I am just pointing out that there could be a two-way system. As was said at the public meeting by the Honourable Member.
RC: Mr. Speaker, as this is a broadcast affair, could you point out that I was not at fault on that occasion.
TB: Councillor Cockwell, you may proceed.
Thank you very much, sir. It is interesting to note, that we are now being told that it is impossible to have a one-way system using John Street, despite the fact that there was a working group set up in 1999, with the Environmental Planning Officer, the Attorney General, the Chief Executive, and various other people, the Roads Engineer, who recommended that John Street should be part of a one-way system. Sir, I really do believe that they should actually have another look and not just decide that they don’t like the ideas or find reasons not to do it.
Moving on, a congratulation to the PWD gangs who have been quietly getting on and tidying up the roads around Stanley. I know there’s a long way to go but these guys have been just getting on with it. I think they have done a very good job in Ross Road West and also the small gang have been repairing pavements. It’s a pleasure to walk on the areas which they worked on. And I think we actually should pass on some congratulations to them.
Just to be slightly different, instead of starting with this, I will finish with it, and welcome Air Commodore Dick Lacey and his wife to the Falklands. I am very pleased to see you here for eighteen months. It’s a pity it couldn’t be longer because continuity is very important in these things.
Finally, may I wish everybody here and anybody who is listening, a very happy Christmas.
I beg to support the Motion.
Cllr. the Hon. Mr. Roger Edwards (RE):
Mr. Speaker, in rising to support the Motion for Adjournment, I would just like to mention a few things. Most have already been covered and I won’t repeat them.
We have a robust line taken on the flights. But I was lobbied the other evening because, apparently, the flight now going via Ushuaia to the Falkland Islands is taking an extra 40 minutes to get here. So, I was asked to look into why that is because it’s adding an additional 67 miles over that of the recognised airways, and only 50 miles if they fly direct. There shouldn’t be a 40 minute addition to the flight time. In investigating this, I came across a website that I thought I might be able to use because it has maps and things on it. It is very interesting that in the international map it has Argentina and the Falkland Islands (UK). Over the page on, I presume it is the Argentine Map, because it has Malvinas Islands. That is in contradiction. But when one reads the details of the Falkland Islands, its main trading partner is in the UK, main primary products, you will all be pleased to know, (this is for the Falkland Islands) the main primary products are livestock and oats.
General laughter abounds.
RE: Main industries are: The Falkland Islands Trading Company and the main exports are coins, stamps, and wool. That was updated at the beginning of December 2003. So, no wonder they get things like the Falkland Islands and Malvinas wrong. And I would make every effort to get back to these people who produce this document and put them right on a few things.
I personally think that it is reprehensible that people don’t sign their names in the newspaper. And I wouldn’t even bother to respond to any of them, even if I was the person being criticised. Normally they are referring – telling us – the Councillors and those in authority here in the Falklands that we don’t care for Human rights, Civil Liberties and the like.
But I would ask you all to cast your mind back to a week last Wednesday. I don’t know if anyone saw the news of the European Union Constitution meetings in Italy. And, there was a quiet protest group there who were putting up posters against a European Union Constitution. They were arrested, were interred and then deported. That’s pretty good human rights civil liberties for our European Union.
I, too, would like to welcome Air Commodore Lacey and his wife and family to the Falklands. I hope they thoroughly enjoy it and I would urge them to ensure they get out and about and go and meet and see the Islands and what we have to offer.
In addition, I would like to wish all the people a very happy and prosperous, safe Christmas.
Thank you.
Cllr. the Hon. Mr. Ian Hansen (IH):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, in rising to support the Motion for Adjournment, I have a couple issues I would like to touch upon that is topical. One, of course, has been mentioned comprehensively – flights - and I would only reiterate what my colleagues have said on that subject.
As an elected representative for the Camp constituency, I always feel bound to mention the problems we have experienced of late with our coastal shipping service. Over the past few months, we have heard of teething problems, slanging, mischief making, and simple bad luck. And all these have credibility. However, I believe we can’t lose sight of the fact that during this period that there is a fairly substantial section of the Farming community who are not receiving the service they should in a contractual obligation. I do hope that now, at the beginning of the wool shipping season, and, of course the imminent movement of livestock for the Abattoir, the forthcoming voyages go smoothly as I believe this last one has. It still does concern me slightly that there isn’t a lot of room for adjustment during what is a very busy Falkland time.
Because of these problems, with the coastal shipping, FIGAS have been asked, indeed expected, to carry much more freight than usual. And, of course, this is during the very busy tourist season. I believe that FIGAS, as a whole, needs to be commended on the way it has handled this extra work.
NE: Here. Here.
IH: Over the last few months I have had cause to travel with FIGAS on a regular basis. And, I can honestly say I never found the administration, the pilots or the ground staff any other than friendly co-operative and efficient. I believe they deserve a mention.
I will make this brief as we began with a marathon and I believe we should end with a short sprint. Finally, I welcome the new Commander British Forces and I hope he and his wife enjoy their stay in the Islands and I do hope that I will not only see you here in Stanley but also out in the Camp.
I would also like to add my Christmas Greetings and best wishes to everybody in the Falklands.
Sir, I beg to support the Motion.
Cllr. the Hon. Mr. Mike Summers (MS):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, it’s almost dinner time so I must be brief. I have two issues, really. One is on Constitutional Development. We have decided in the last few days that as the Chair on the Committee on the Constitution, I will produce early in the New Year a brief report of where we are up to on Constitutional Development. I accept the comments of some that it has rather got lost in the mist. And, it looks as though we may be doing some things peace-meal. We are not. We just have been concentrating on a particular area to try to get something sorted out. Early in the new year we will try and produce a review of at least those areas where we have decided either to do things or not to do things. And then, I hope by the end of next year, try to reach some conclusion. Otherwise, we are going to be running out of time in this Council.
My only other topic is, of course, Argentina and the flights issue. Given what has happened in the last few days, and given the Diplomatic contacts between the United Kingdom and Argentina, I think we have to expect that charter flights for the balance of this year will not proceed. And, I think, there’s a very real prospect that they won’t proceed in the following year, either. That’s the price of our independence, I guess, and we can put up with that. There will be a need, at some point, when the Argentines return to reality, to sit down and discuss communications in general.
In the discussions that Cllr. Cheek and I had with the Minister in London last week, he fully expects us to sit and have discussions with the public here about the future of Communications. And, for everybody to be involved in decisions about what we think we can and cannot do to achieve the sort of communications we require for scheduled flights, which will not be coming from Argentina at any price but also in support of the tourism industry. And, there has been a good deal of discussion about whether the whole charter business might, in fact, be opened up into an open skies policy for charters. It’s an issue that we have to discuss at some point after the Argentines realise that bullying tactics aren’t going to get them any discussions at all about sovereignty.
I would also like to welcome the Commander British Forces and his wife and family to the Falklands. It is a good thing that the term has been extended to eighteen months, or at least, at this stage it’s a good thing. Welcome and I hope we can work constructively together. And I add my good wishes to everybody in the Falklands for a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Note: It’s an interesting choice of words when Cllr. Summers said, “It’s an issue that we have to discuss at some point after the Argentines realise that bullying tactics aren’t going to get them any discussions at all about sovereignty.”
Commander British Forces, Air Commodore Dick Lacey (DL):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, I would like to thank the Honourable Members for the very warm welcome that I have received here and, indeed, if I may, extend that to everybody else that I have met so far. It is very gratifying to come to a place like this where one is made so welcome so early in one’s time. I know that my wife and I are going to enjoy our 18 months here. That is evident already. We have already fallen in love with these Islands.
I am delighted to be here in the role in which I find myself, which I consider to be a great privilege. I am also honoured to be invited to play a role in your Executive and Legislative Councils. And, I look forward to discharging my responsibilities in that regard to the best of my abilities in the coming 18 months.
As I have said, I know I am going to enjoy it here. I am delighted to be here and I add my best wishes to all Islanders for a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
Financial Secretary the Hon. Mr. Derek Howatt (DH):
Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity to thank Honourable Members for the amount of time they have needed to spend on the heavy subject of taxation recently. Despite the simplification measures, the tax system might still be regarded as complex by some.
I recall seeing in an Inland Revenue Annual Report some time ago a quote on the first page that should be attributed to Albert Einstein, which read, “The hardest thing to understand is income tax.” I thought Honourable Members might get some comfort in this.
I also extend a welcome to the Commodore and his family.
To make a saving on sending cards this year, I would also like to wish everyone
Laughter.
DH: A prosperous new year. I support the Motion for Adjournment.
The Chief Executive, Mr. Chris Simpkins (CS):
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members, as I approach my first Christmas in these Islands I am observing the weather outside today and, indeed, perhaps towards the end of November, I am, of course, reminded that I come from the Northern Hemisphere. But I do fear that I am about to experience my first white Christmas for several years. However, I look forward to much better weather perhaps over the Christmas period and the races on Boxing Day.
Could I take this opportunity to thank Members for their measured comments on the issue of anonymous criticism of Civil Servants. It’s a subject which actually strikes very close to our hearts and one which I know colleagues have found very difficult on occasions to contend with in the last few weeks. It’s also a subject that I will be discussing very shortly with members of the Government Management Team. For I think we need to take a view in general on it. And, that we will be doing.
Could I also, on behalf of the Civil Service, extend a warm welcome to Air Commodore Lacey and his wife, Cate. In so doing, I assure you, Air Commodore, that the civil service is here to assist you in your demanding duties and we will do so to the best of our ability.
I am sure that the increased length of your tour will assist the development of even stronger links between our Military and Civil communities. And, I look forward to discussing this issue with you in due course.
And finally, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to observe that Air Commodore Lacey doesn’t feel the need to attend meetings of the House dressed for battle.
The Speaker, the Hon. Mr. Tim Blake (TB):
Ladies and Gentlemen, before I declare this House adjourned, may I take this opportunity to welcome the Commander British Forces and may I thank you all for not running into tomorrow or Sunday to get the taxes rules through because I hope, Tri-star permitting, to be flying out before the end of next week.
My good wishes to you all and the House stands adjourned Sine Die.
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